Liberty Interactive Corp and Liberty Media Corp at Bank of America Merrill Lynch Media, Communications & Entertainment Conference

Sep 07, 2017 AM EDT
FWONA - Liberty Media Corp
Liberty Interactive Corp and Liberty Media Corp at Bank of America Merrill Lynch Media, Communications & Entertainment Conference
Sep 07, 2017 / 08:35PM GMT 

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Corporate Participants
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   *  Mark David Carleton
      QVC Group - CFO

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Presentation
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 Unidentified Analyst,    [1]
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 Anyway, thank you, Mark Carleton, for being here, CFO of Liberty Media, Liberty Interactive, Liberty Broadband. Did I miss something?

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 Mark David Carleton,  QVC Group - CFO   [2]
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 No, that's most of them.

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 Unidentified Analyst,    [3]
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 Okay. Anyway, we're thrilled to have you. Thank you so much for joining.

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Questions and Answers
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 Unidentified Analyst,    [1]
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 Let's start with Charter. Charter appears to have a number of options to think through, with multiple companies from multiple industries interested in partnering or actually, more likely, acquiring it. Clearly, Charter could also remain independent and do so successfully. As the largest shareholder of Carter -- of Charter, can you discuss how Liberty views Charter's positioning and how you think through Charter's prospects as an independent company?

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 Mark David Carleton,  QVC Group - CFO   [2]
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 Yes, I'd say, [Jessica], right now, we love where Charter is at. And I think Tom and his team there have a great plan and are doing a great job. And we've got their compensation nicely aligned with growth. And they're in a great spot. As they look at wireless opportunities, I think it's definitely an option for them. I don't look at it as a necessity. I think John Malone, our Chairman, likes the quad play and likes the wireless component, but I think Tom and the team certainly looks at it that says, "With the MVNO opportunities that we've got, we'll be able to see whether we can make this wireless business accretive and how it fits in." But with or without that, I think the Charter team is well positioned. And obviously, as investors, we look at opportunities for long-term value. And certainly, if opportunities come up that, we think, deliver better long-term value than the current proposition, we'll certainly look at those. But I think what Tom and the group have achieved and what they're targeting to achieve, pretty compelling what they've done.

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 Unidentified Analyst,    [3]
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 Okay. I'm going to -- and let's come back to the wireless in a few more questions. But just on the basic Charter, do you consider Charter a strategically complete company? And if not, what type of assets would add the most value to it?

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 Mark David Carleton,  QVC Group - CFO   [4]
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 Well, I definitely think they are today. And I think their video business. And overall, we've seen attrition in the whole cable market a little bit and cable subs. But I think we've got growth in, certainly, in some of these Charter markets and, certainly, in the Time Warner ones, I think, as we're going ahead. So I think they're complete. I think they're well positioned. Obviously, there are opportunities, a lot of available cash flow and available borrowing capacity if there are opportunities to come up to buy things or add them. But I think where they're positioned right now and the track they're on is really good.

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 Unidentified Analyst,    [5]
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 How do you think about -- you Liberty think about the potential for horizontal acquisitions? Would you like to see Charter expand their footprint? Are cable companies disadvantaged by the regional footprints versus national and international OTT providers? I mean, you have some really well-capitalized competition in certain areas like Google and Amazon, there are international content companies, national wireless players, et cetera. I mean, how do you think like kind of globally?

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 Mark David Carleton,  QVC Group - CFO   [6]
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 Well, I think the -- in the businesses they're in now, I think, ultimately, if they need to be in wireless and it becomes a necessity, then I think that footprint is a little more of a hindrance than a benefit. But right now, their ability to deliver broadband at compelling speeds and compelling prices and their ability to continue to deliver the video bundle is really tough for anyone else to compete with, certainly, for the satellite guys to compete with and any of the pure streaming people to compete with right now. But I think, ultimately, if wireless becomes a necessity, then you'll have to look at whether that footprint is a bigger issue or not.

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 Unidentified Analyst,    [7]
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 Do you consider a merger with Comcast feasible from a regulatory perspective?

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 Mark David Carleton,  QVC Group - CFO   [8]
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 Well, I'm not sure. I would say I think it's more feasible today than it was, perhaps, a year ago or certainly 2 years ago. My sense is the Comcast guys are probably a little hesitant about that, given what happened with the Time Warner transaction that they proposed. But as I said, it's more feasible, but I'm not sure I would say it's probable.

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 Unidentified Analyst,    [9]
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 Are there paths to make it more feasible?

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 Mark David Carleton,  QVC Group - CFO   [10]
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 I'm sorry?

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 Unidentified Analyst,    [11]
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 Are there paths to make it more feasible?

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 Mark David Carleton,  QVC Group - CFO   [12]
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 Well, I think as we see the development of OTT products and as we see other OTT competitors come in, I think that the business of video distribution and broadband distribution might get looked at a little bit differently. But I think the bigger changes have been more in terms of the government's view of it than the business' actions themselves.

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 Unidentified Analyst,    [13]
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 So let's go back to wireless. As you alluded to before, John Malone has been a proponent of fixed mobile convergence, largely based on the European experience, the European cable experience. Charter's approaching a launch of an MVNO wireless service and is also running 5G trials. How do you think about the wireless environment and convergence in the U.S.?

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 Mark David Carleton,  QVC Group - CFO   [14]
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 Yes, I -- the wireless business today is a tough business. You've got large, well-capitalized competitors. You've got smaller, more nimble, more ambitious competitors, a lot of dollars being spent. I think it's a great option for Charter, and I think the MVNO path, the agreement that they have with Verizon is an excellent agreement from a Charter standpoint. And I think we'll see. And if it is accretive to Charter, I think it will be a benefit. Again, I think Tom's view, and I agree with him, is that it is not -- there's nothing mandatory, there's nothing pressing about getting significantly into wireless today, but we will see. That may well change over time.

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 Unidentified Analyst,    [15]
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 Will the MVNO with Verizon be a long-term solution for Charter?

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 Mark David Carleton,  QVC Group - CFO   [16]
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 It could be. I think it depends on how important that business becomes, how fast it grows, how integrated it is, as to how long that MVNO will be effective. But I think, right now, it's a great way for them to enter the market.

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 Unidentified Analyst,    [17]
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 One last wireless question. How does Liberty think about 5G? Do you see it more as a threat or an opportunity for Charter?

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 Mark David Carleton,  QVC Group - CFO   [18]
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 No, I think it's a great opportunity for Charter. We've spent a lot of time looking at different bands, different frequencies with Spectrum and different development and delivery methods. And to effectively get 5G down where it needs to be in the neighborhoods, the WiFi networks and the distribution that the cable guys have is very valuable. And anyone offering serious 5G is going to need backhaul and connectivity through that. And I think Charter, either in terms of offering it themselves or being a provider for one of the telecom companies to provide it, they're in a good position for it.

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 Unidentified Analyst,    [19]
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 So just slightly changing gears but staying with Charter. With programmers increasingly moving towards direct-to-consumer models, how does Liberty think about how that will alter the dynamic between content companies and content distributors?

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 Mark David Carleton,  QVC Group - CFO   [20]
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 Well, I think we're beginning to see attrition in the traditional cable model, but it's still a giant model. I mean, ESPN has struggled, but they still have 94 million customers and paying $8 to $10 a month. That's still a huge band. But I think the content that is compelling will continue to be strongly valued. And a lot of that is sports content. Some of it is news content. Some of the other movies and general entertainment, perhaps, will have to find different ways to get monetized. But obviously, that's changed a lot. I mean, I don't think 10 years ago or 15 years ago, we would have ever envisioned a world where you had a cable system and you didn't have Nickelodeon or MTV or Discovery Channel on that. And I think as we've gotten to more of an instant access kind of a world where we can pull up that content on our phone, I think that value proposition in a linear cable model has changed a little bit. But I still think in a lot of areas, sports, broadcast television, Fox News, some of these are still must-see TV and must-have content. And those companies are going to continue to get healthy and effective affiliate rate -- affiliate fees and be able to sell healthy advertising.

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 Unidentified Analyst,    [21]
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 One last Charter question and then we'll switch gears. But Altice has been an aggressive acquirer, largely due to its ability to offer premium space on significantly more efficient operations than the acquired companies were historically run. What do you believe the high point of sustainable margins is for a cable operator? And how does that inform Liberty's views of Altice's equity?

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 Mark David Carleton,  QVC Group - CFO   [22]
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 Well, I think what Patrick and the group at Altice have done has been very impressive, and the margins are very high. My sense is relative to how Charter operates and, certainly, Liberty's mindset is much more as a long-term investor and a growth investor. And I think that the Altice operating mindset has been more margin maximization. But they've been very effective at it. And I think if they are able to sustain those high margins over the next few years, then I think it will -- if they're able to do that, it will change how we have to look at the cable business and evaluate whether those growth expenditures are as accretive as we think they are and whether they're actually running it more efficiently. But one way or another, this will work out. They'll maintain those margins. And either the rest of the cable industry will get better or they'll buy all of it or they won't be able to retain those margins and we'll end up buying them. So one of those things is definitely going to happen. I'm not sure which one.

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 Unidentified Analyst,    [23]
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 What's a reasonable time frame to think about those thoughts?

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 Mark David Carleton,  QVC Group - CFO   [24]
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 I would say a couple of years. And certainly, so far, their model has been quite effective. But we've been in pretty stable times, and we've had some good broadband environment. So we'll see over the next couple of years whether they're able to sustain it or not.

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 Unidentified Analyst,    [25]
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 So let's move along to Formula One, where you have phenomenal management. You've done a great job with that already. But there's still a lot of potential. So let's, I guess, run through some of them, some of the upside, some of the opportunities. Sponsorship has been maybe the most well-telegraphed area of opportunity for Formula One. CAA is the agency of record for the Formula One sponsorship business. What can you tell us about their mandate? How would you define sponsorship success? And over what time frame would you expect to achieve it?

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 Mark David Carleton,  QVC Group - CFO   [26]
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 Yes, I think we're just getting going in CAA, given that there is really no sponsorship group at Formula One other than Bernie, and Bernie was able to generate millions of dollars just with his own phone calls, but not a formal sponsorship group like you would see at the NFL or Major League Baseball or the European Premier League or any of those. And as those groups are just getting formed, we're just getting started. But as we look at it, there was no soft drink sponsor, there was no telecom sponsor, there was no professional services sponsor, no oil and gas sponsor, no banking sponsor. So I think we're looking at packages and opportunities to really drive that. And what CAA really helped us with was feet on the ground all over the world to be able to start having those discussions, given that Sean was a one-armed paper hanger as he showed up without a staff or a group. And so that really helped us hit the ground running over there. And I think that is going to be an area where we'll start to see results next year as some of the technology for delivery of some of that sponsorship and some of the bundling. And I think it won't just be title sponsors of races. I think you're going to see a package and a bundle of different sponsorship opportunities at different levels, different levels of hospitality, probably, than we've seen before in the races. But I think we'll start seeing positive results from that in 2018.

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 Unidentified Analyst,    [27]
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 Part of the Formula One story revolves around boosting their presence, its presence, in key markets like the U.S. and some other markets. Can you give us an update in terms of the potential to bring the World Championship to new cities around the world?

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 Mark David Carleton,  QVC Group - CFO   [28]
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 Well, we're certainly looking, and I know dozens and dozens of groups around the world have contacted Chase to talk about, perhaps, getting races. And I think our approach is a little different than historical management was looking to maximize race fees in the short term. And I think we're looking to maximize value and benefit for us and for our teams, to get -- and for the promoters to get the right races in the right places with the right profitable approach for everyone. And I think it's the same way in the U.S. We have one race in Austin right now, and I wouldn't expect that we'll see a big, large number of races in the near term. But obviously, a U.S. presence is important for a number of those teams. But we need to work on having U.S. drivers and having more content available here to keep U.S. fans entertained and the right kind of venues and the right kind of opportunities. So I think in the near term, our opportunities are in Europe and in Asia and some of those parts, more so than in the U.S. in the near term. But over the longer term, certainly, that's where it needs to get. And that is where companies like Red Bull and Ferrari and Mercedes are certainly looking to use Formula One to speak to their brand.

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 Unidentified Analyst,    [29]
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 Okay. But historically, high race promotion fees have been tough for some of the local promoters to digest, particularly where government subsidies weren't available. So how do you get over that hump?

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 Mark David Carleton,  QVC Group - CFO   [30]
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 Well, certainly, we have to grow the pie. And I think before, there was less concern about whether the promoters were actually profitable and how much subsidy was coming from the government. The reality is there's government subsidy for every race, whether it's police presence or roadblocks or security or whatever that is. But in some of the places, the race fees were primarily paid for by the government. It's one of the reasons that Chase and the team is going to every race this year and meeting with all the promoters to understand what's your economics, how can we help this be a more compelling show to help you sell more tickets? How can we help with sponsorship, with VIP, food and beverage to make it a better event, a 3-day event, not a 1-day event, so that these promoters have to be successful. And I think Chase has said it from day 1 that for F1 to be successful, the teams have to be successful, the promoters have to be successful. All 3 of them have to work for this thing to work.

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 Unidentified Analyst,    [31]
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 In a world where many entertainment brands are contemplating going direct-to-consumer, how does Liberty view F1's direct-to-consumer opportunity? What are the potential costs of pursuing this strategy?

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 Mark David Carleton,  QVC Group - CFO   [32]
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 Well, I think we're very excited about the opportunity. Currently, we have tons of data and tons of video about the cars and about their performance and cameras on all the cars and data about tire pressure, tire temperature, RPMs, breaking capacity, all of that, that's really not being sent out anywhere. And I think, initially, Chase and Sean are looking at this as really an extension of the broadcast, not a replacement of the broadcast, that there will be additional data and information that will be live on race day, but additional content between races and content in the off-season that maybe is a little more behind the scenes kind of content that will get produced. So I think we look at it, at least initially, as an extension of the broadcast. And many areas we have rights to do this now. In some areas, we don't and will as these contracts come up for renewal and get extended. But I think the intention is for it to be well integrated into the broadcast offering, and I think, fortunately, Chase and Sean have a lot of experience at doing that.

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 Unidentified Analyst,    [33]
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 How much of a linkage exists between Live Nation holdings and F1? Are you thinking -- I mean, are there ticketing -- you're thinking about like ticketing or sponsorship or other event-related opportunities between the 2 companies?

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 Mark David Carleton,  QVC Group - CFO   [34]
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 Yes. I think that the -- there have been a lot of discussions with the companies and, obviously, Live Nation, from a sponsorship standpoint and an event standpoint, with a number of music festivals they put on. And you can make an argument that a race weekend is not unlike a 3-day music festival, that it just happens that some of these races are the -- some of the biggest events of the year in these countries, not unlike Rock in Rio, the music festival out there, or Austin City Limits. So there have been a lot of discussions about that and discussions on sponsorship, packages and bundling where the Live Nation guys have been really helpful in framing what they've been able to sell and how they're able to bundle naming rights for an event, along with the specific lounge sponsorship and some off-event kind of sponsorship as well. So there's not a lot of formal contractual stuff going on, but there's certainly a lot of discussion.

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 Unidentified Analyst,    [35]
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 And when you think -- I mean, it seems like so many different pockets of opportunity or potential upside. You mentioned hospitality, sponsorship. Do you see -- is there any one that you think is a bigger driver? Did I miss anything?

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 Mark David Carleton,  QVC Group - CFO   [36]
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 Well, no, I think the broadcast contracts and the sponsorship are certainly first and foremost. And we've had a lot of success on the renewals so far. In areas that have been competitive, we've been able to get nice increases. And in some of the areas where, from a broadcasting standpoint, it's less competitive, we've done very well at expanding our distribution and getting it as wide and far as we can. So I think that's going well, and the sponsorship stuff is just getting going. And there's a lot of discussions among all these groups on the packages. And so I think it's progressing well.

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 Unidentified Analyst,    [37]
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 So let's move on to Sirius. You now own -- or Liberty now owns 70% of Sirius, and it's continuing to grow. What's the end game for Liberty and Sirius?

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 Mark David Carleton,  QVC Group - CFO   [38]
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 Well, obviously, the business is -- has performed beautifully. And Jim Meyer and the team there has done an excellent job, and the subscribers keep growing, and the cash flow keeps growing. And we're big believers in the stock, obviously. As we continue to see value in that equity, we'll continue to buy it back. The company has a lot of flexibility for acquisitions and other opportunities with the cash flow they have and the relatively low leverage level they maintain. So we think the company is well positioned. And at some point, we get to 80%, which really doesn't change anything vis-à-vis the company or their operations but does make it that any dividends we get would be nontaxable. And as you know, John Malone does what he can to avoid paying taxes as much as he can. So that would give us a little more capital flexibility without any kind of tax bleed on dividends versus buyback. But the business is doing great, and Jim and his team have done a great job.

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 Unidentified Analyst,    [39]
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 It's another company with a great management team, absolutely. But Liberty Sirius still trades at a sizable discount to its net asset value. Why hasn't Liberty been more aggressive? Why haven't you repurchased shares of Liberty Sirius to close that gap?

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 Mark David Carleton,  QVC Group - CFO   [40]
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 Well, we -- when we separated that, we certainly thought that the market would catch on and understand that discount and start solving some of our problem for us. I think there will come a time when we'll want to issue that equity to do something, and we'll take some actions to be able to shrink that discount. And I think nibbling and dabbling at it, for us, I think, isn't the right approach. I think when we get to the point that we want to work on closing it, we'll close it, and we'll do it pretty aggressively.

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 Unidentified Analyst,    [41]
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 Okay. Sirius announced an agreement to acquire a 16% stake in Pandora earlier this summer. How will Pandora enhance the value of Sirius and vice versa?

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 Mark David Carleton,  QVC Group - CFO   [42]
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 Well, it's an investment for Sirius. And I think one of the things we liked about Pandora and the Sirius folks liked as well was an advertising-supported service. And they had advertising skills and advertising presence. And I think it could give us an opportunity to have a good, better, best kind of a service offering. And I think we're far more believers in the advertising-supported model. You've heard John, you've heard Greg, you've heard me talk about the challenges we see in the pure streaming business. Very difficult business with the music rights payments where they are. And I think we like the advertising-based model. We think it fits well with Sirius. We think they can help us from an advertising standpoint and a foundation standpoint of a tiered service. We can certainly help them with some of our curated content. And for us, it's not as much purely, can the business, on a stand-alone basis, be massively accretive? It's, can it be accretive to the Sirius business overall? And can it help us migrate more customers and get better penetration in the used cars, where we've already made the investment in the radio, and use this content to light up all those zombie radios, as we call them, and gain some more conversion there. So I think we'll see. This transaction doesn't close until, I think, we're saying the fourth quarter. There have been some changes in the board and in the management team, that I think we're pretty excited about and supportive of. And so we'll be getting after it here as soon as it closes.

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 Unidentified Analyst,    [43]
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 And a similar question as I asked with F1. But how can Sirius collaborate with Live Nation and vice versa?

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 Mark David Carleton,  QVC Group - CFO   [44]
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 Well, we are seeing definitely more of that in terms of broadcasting of some of the live events and coordination among some of the events. In electronic and in country, certainly, in Nashville, the Sirius guys have been very strong with the highway and their other channels and personalities. And they're doing more and more together and doing more and more with the -- with pop-up channels and individual channels for artists as they're going on tour, and I think we'll see more of that. It's beneficial to both promotion from a Live Nation standpoint about upcoming tours of their artists and exclusive content that Sirius can have. And that's really been the big differentiator as we look at it between Sirius and a Spotify and even a Pandora. When you look at the exclusive content and the curated content as well as all the talk and TV channels that are broadcast, that content bouquet is a real differentiator for the guys at Sirius.

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 Unidentified Analyst,    [45]
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 Right. Totally agree. Okay. Moving on to the Atlanta Braves. Baseball season is coming to a close, and with its inaugural year of SunTrust Park and The Battery, how has the stadium and mixed-use development performed relative to your expectations? And what steps remain? For example, how much space still has to be leased? Is the Omni Hotel still on track to open by the end of the year? Is there anything else that...

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 Mark David Carleton,  QVC Group - CFO   [46]
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 Yes. No, I would say that the stadium and The Battery have been awesome. We wish the team had, had better success on the field this year. But some of the young kids that we've had in the system, and Terry McGuirk and the group down there has done a really great job at getting the minor league system back up to the top of baseball, which is a place where the Braves have been many of the last 25 years. And so a bunch of the young pitchers and a couple of the young field players, Dansby Swanson and Albies and a few of the others, have really started to come into their own, Camargo. And so we're positively inclined with some of the young pitching and some of the players. Stadium has been awesome, and the experience at the stadium has been incredible. And I think there is a visit or 2 a week from team owners and stadium owners around the world, coming to visit and see it and understand it. The performance at The Battery has well exceeded our expectations. For the first few weeks, many of the restaurants and bars, they were running out of product. The pizza place ran out of pizza dough. So the retail has been very good. We have intentionally held some of that back and held some development back. But the bars and restaurants have been full and busy, jammed on game days and pretty busy on other days. And that's before the Omni Hotel opens and before the Comcast building gets occupied. And we're looking at a couple other new buildings there as well. Residential, I think 80% of the units that we've put available are all leased up. As we add them, they continue to get leased. It's been really a great story, and it's a beautiful place. I'd encourage anyone to go down there and spend a little time. And we expected [an increase] at the ballpark from a new stadium, but it's been more than that. And just subtle things, like at Turner Field, if the weather forecast said it might rain, then people would not come to the game. At SunTrust Park, a huge number of the seats are covered, but the fans know that if there's a rain delay, they've got all kinds of clubs and bars and restaurants. So they come to the game anyway even if it may rain, where, before, they just wouldn't come, whether it actually rained or not. So that's just been a great benefit, and I think we see other development and building opportunities there. And as the team continues to improve, and certainly, what we saw with the transaction in Miami, team values are very strong, and we think the Braves still have a lot of upside from a stadium and ticketing standpoint, mixed-use standpoint as well as our TV deal that's up in 2027.

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 Unidentified Analyst,    [47]
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 So let's touch on those 2 things that you just mentioned. So the Braves contract doesn't expire until 2027. How do you drive additional value with the Braves without being able to tap into those -- into renewing those [rates]?

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 Mark David Carleton,  QVC Group - CFO   [48]
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 Well, I think the stadium and the teams were also in the process of getting a new spring training facility built on the Gulf Coast of Florida. We certainly have a lot of opportunity there. And on the TV rights, we'll see whether there are discussions that happen before 2027. But certainly, there's value from that standpoint. We've owned a number of these regional sports networks over the years, 3 of them recently where we had baseball contracts that we're pretty familiar with what the rates and the values of those are. And certainly, the Braves have the largest extended market area of any team going into North Florida and the Carolinas and Alabama and Mississippi and up into Tennessee. And we think there's significant upside and improvement in there. And we'll have some discussions with our partners at Fox in due time about what the next step of that is.

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 Unidentified Analyst,    [49]
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 And then you also mentioned the sale of the Marlins. You alluded to that. Recently sold for $1.2 billion versus the 2002 acquisition for $158 million. Are you concerned that sports teams and programming rights to sports teams are in the midst of a bubble?

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 Mark David Carleton,  QVC Group - CFO   [50]
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 Well, it's interesting. The team business has always been a real estate business other than, perhaps, in the NFL. But baseball teams, other than a few, don't make a large amount of cash flow, don't generate a huge amount of profit based on what they sell for. But there have been, over the years, people with sufficient amount of wealth that want to buy them. And we see the Houston Rockets trade and the Marlins trade in just a short period. So the team values are getting pretty high. On the TV side, I think it depends. What we're beginning to see there is some of these areas have gotten a little bit [toppy] and there have been issues, issues in Houston, issues with the Dodgers contract, issues in Portland where the rates that the RSN or team owners have tried to get have been too high, and they haven't gotten carriage. So I think it's a market-by-market kind of analysis. There are a number of teams out there, the Braves being one, that I think have a lot of room to increase their rates and still be highly profitable. Some of the others are getting high, and what we see when they get too high, they struggle to get carriage, and it's an issue. So I think this is a process that will work itself out, perhaps, in sports rights in general, more of the streamers. Perhaps, the Amazons and the Googles and the Facebooks will step in and fill the void on some of the traditional rights. But the pure economics on sports rights have got to be looked at, and you've got to bid carefully on those rights to make sure that they're driving the value and the profit that you're seeking to achieve.

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 Unidentified Analyst,    [51]
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 Do you think the leagues could eventually disintermediate content companies and go directly to consumers themselves?

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 Mark David Carleton,  QVC Group - CFO   [52]
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 Well, we've seen that a little bit with the NFL and the NFL network. And even with the success and the power of that brand, I see that as still being a lot of years away. Very difficult for them with the sales they have on Monday night games and Thursday night -- or Sunday night games, and the baseline games and the streaming rights, I think we're still a long ways away from the full disintermediation of that. There's just too much money and too much monetization capability by the networks, the broadcast networks and ESPN and the like, for the NFL or any of these leagues to be able to replace it. That being said, the shift will continue. And as they are able to monetize that and shift that profit on to their own balance sheet, that will happen. But I think it's going to take a lot longer than some people would predict.

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 Unidentified Analyst,    [53]
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 Okay. One last question, more general question. What are the largest opportunities for growth at any of the Liberty Media companies? And how does Liberty help those companies achieve their opportunities -- these opportunities?

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 Mark David Carleton,  QVC Group - CFO   [54]
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 Well, certainly, we -- where Charter is, we think there's a huge amount of opportunity there. Where QVC is with the HSN merger that we're hoping will get closed in the fourth quarter of this year, we think there's a huge amount of opportunity there and a lot of synergies in that. The Live Nation guys are massively outperforming where they've been. So we're in pretty good shape. Sirius XM is doing awesome. And I would say Charter, just from a sheer magnitude of size, I would say, has a good amount of opportunity. And Formula One has a big amount of opportunity to the extent that they can drive the sponsorship and they can drive the changing economics in the event. So it's been good. And the one thing that Liberty has always been good at under John and Peter and Dob and now Greg over the last 10 or 12 years is we're not operators. We're investors. And our largest company shareholder sits in the office every day. And every decision we make is based on driving shareholder value. And we hire management teams and we do what we can to incent them to grow the business as big as it can get. And we got great management teams, from Michael Rapino to Chase, to Jim Meyer, to Mike George and on down, Terry McGuirk and the Braves folks, great bunch of leaders. We think we've got the incentives appropriately lined up to get them to drive value. So we just hope it continues for a while longer.

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 Unidentified Analyst,    [55]
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 Great. Thank you so much for coming here.

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 Mark David Carleton,  QVC Group - CFO   [56]
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 Thanks for having me. Good to see you again.

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 Unidentified Analyst,    [57]
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 Great to see you.




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